Return-path: Envelope-to: Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:20:52 +0100 Received: from rhee.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.1.202] helo=cl.cam.ac.uk) by mta2.cl.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.092 #1) id 1Kbd7D-0006xG-00; Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:20:51 +0100 To: "Eben Upton" cc: "Alan Mycroft" , "Jon Crowcroft" , "rdm34@cl.cam.ac.uk" , Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: redo bbc micro? In-reply-to: <915E29EF0CCB654CBEE268FA579768F710074B9E5A@SJEXCHCCR01.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: Message from Jon Crowcroft of "Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:11:18 BST." <915E29EF0CCB654CBEE268FA579768F710074B9E5A@SJEXCHCCR01.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Comments: In-reply-to "Eben Upton" message dated "Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:11:46 -0700." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <30697.1220628051.1@cl.cam.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:20:51 +0100 From: Jon Crowcroft Message-Id: given apricot, apple, etc why dont we call it raspberry In missive <915E29EF0CCB654CBEE268FA579768F710074B9E5A@SJEXCHCCR01.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, "Eben Upton" typed: >>512 FPGAs! What's their air conditioning bill like? :) >> >>Norcott definitely look like a good prospect; I'm sure there'd be no object= >>ion at this end to using them. I'll take some snaps of the board in action = >>and upload them somewhere. I'd completely forgotten about the CE nonsense; = >>shouldn't be too bad for something this simple (and with no power/RF compon= >>ents). >> >>Had a quick chat with the boss today and did a little demo of the Python co= >>nsole running. I detect a subtle shift in emphasis from "we need to sell th= >>is up the tree" to "I'm sure we can figure out a way to do this". No promis= >>es yet, and he's on holiday for a week, but I'm pretty optimistic. We may b= >>e able to get Norcott 2727B0 samples and the relevant app notes real soon n= >>ow. >> >>> I'll try and organise a demo of the lightBlueOptics projector if people a= >>re interested (looking towards v2/v3 I guess). >> >>Yes, let do that. Not far to travel for me. >> >>> What name did we give this in the end? >> >>No strong opinion. I've been calling it Runcible, out of a fondness for Edw= >>ard Lear and Neal Stephenson, but that's a code name rather than a brand. A= >>s we run Python, some pun around pi might be good, and lends itself to good= >> strong graphic design possibilities. Pi-box, pi-slice, mom and apple pi? >> >>Cheers >>Eben >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Alan Mycroft [mailto:Alan.Mycroft@cl.cam.ac.uk] >>Sent: 05 September 2008 11:08 >>To: Jon Crowcroft >>Cc: Eben Upton; Alan Mycroft; rdm34@cl.cam.ac.uk; Alan.Mycroft@cl.cam.ac.uk >>Subject: Re: redo bbc micro? >> >>Yesterday I presented at the Research Day at Imperial (Oskar Mencer). >> >>During this we went to see their 512-FPGA altera board (for grunt CPU stuff= >>, little i/o comms), and was impressed by the layout of these (40-50cm squa= >>re) and had an explanation of how these were quite hard to get stopping fro= >>m twisting during manufacture (in more detail that I expects). Anyway, I g= >>ot talking to founder of the firm who makes >>them www.norcott.co.uk and it turns out: >>1. he's Pete Lomas an ex-univ of manchester academic (about my age). >>2. he's strongly supportive of the idea of the "Beeb philosophy an >> accessibility" >>3. these guys do lots of building/casing, and an attention to detail >> which is pretty hot (e.g. when transfering to lead-free solder they >> bought an X-ray machine for looking at solder flow) 4. he thought =C2=A3= >>20 for 1000-off was in principle reasonable 5. continuing the walk in the w= >>oods, he felt that he might even be >> able to get this done with much internal labour costed at zero >> (i.e. marketting budget) were he his company logo to be visible >> (along with CamU and Broadcom if we want). Maybe even a perspex >> cover to the board and the logo on the PCB is enough here. >>6. He had thoughts (and obvious experience on boxes); molded plastic >> costs (I recall =C2=A320k plus pence per copy, so OK at the next higher = >>scale). >>7. For selling this one needs CE and WEEE approval (the latter means that >> a web-site selling this needs to indirect via someone like Norcott >> for payment which has such approval, even if it's looks like a >> univeristy site. >>8. He'd also be happy to do the PCB (IC's board is 8 layers) -- for his >> QA, but was OK with us doing it. He likes to see demos/prototypes first= >> -- >> he's pleased that the components are available before making the PCB's >> [it's not rare for his clients to change a chip pinout between asking hi= >>m >> for PCBs and delivering the chips :-( ] 9. He understands our "everythi= >>ng is free-software apart from the CPU" >> ethos and this means no per-copy royalty overhang etc. >> >>Unless we have some reason for going somewhere else (and especially given I= >>mperial's approval of Norcott) then I think going with them might be a win-= >>win all round (at least for the first run). >> >>Views? Eben, would you be happy to send him a photo and brief explanation = >>(under perhaps informally-stated confidentiality of course) >> >>Alan >> >> cheers jon