The 7/22/1996 Base Proposal

Good Monday to ya'll,

I spent Sat. recording LMPs of MAPs 01 thru 18, excluding 12.  Does
that suggest anything about 12?  Anyway I wanted to do all thru 26
but couldn't do any more.  So here is the latest proposal based on
your comments and what I learned (so far).  I added my comments
about my recording attempts to SECTION 4 below.  I didn't use any
suicide runs for the recordings and tried to finish in resonable
shape, 75+ hit point if possible.

Some general comments on the recordings so far that are not
reflected in SECTION 4 below.

MAP05 This was easier than I thought it would be going in (once I
      learned a trick for the ending) but still I could think this
      is a good medium but it and 04 are the best bets to go into
      easy if one has to go.

MAP06 This one is a remarkably easy for a hard (but I know the level
      well) and it will require only one strafe jump and two small lucks
      to do it like I did.  This one really surprised me in how easy
      it was.  Actually for two seconds wait, strafe jump isn't even
      needed now that I think about it.

MAP12 This is a bitch, I still don't have it!  Could be hardest
      but am happy with hard if one of us can make LMP to show it.
      I don't know this level at all which I hope is most of the
      problem :-)

MAP13 Another surprise, remarkably easy for a hard ... and again one
      that I know well.  But it is closer to easy/hard than medium.
      If we moved all these to medium all that will be hard
      are 09 12 17 24.

MAP14 This one is even easier than 06, I could be talked into
      medium here (and I don't even know this MAP!) but hard is
      ok too, some MAPs have to be hard!

MAP16 This one is much harder than I thought going in given the
      previous discussions and could be another candidate for
      going to easy in an attempt to balance the set.  But not
      as good for easy as 04 or 05 IMO.

MAP09 This is the hardest of the set I have recorded so far!  Much
      harder than I was thinking before I tried it.

MAP23 Has anyone ever really made a recording of this one?  I wonder
      if it really belongs in medium, looks easy to die a lot to me.

Below is an index of the SECTIONS in this note.

SECTION 1 Evaluation of last sets you sent me.
SECTION 2 MAPS we all agree on.
SECTION 3 MAPS still up for discussion.
SECTION 4 Last comments I received for each of the MAPs in SECTION 3
          and my comments based on my recordings.
SECTION 5 Copies of the sets used to build SECTION 1.

The final result is that it looks like George's proposal last week
was right on the money (pending recordings of 12, 21, 23, 24 and 26)
So I would vote to move 05 back to easy to balance the set giving:

Easiest   01 18 32
Easy      03 05 08 15 21 27 28 30 31
Medium    04 07 10 11 16 19 20 22 23 25
Hard      02 06 09 12 13 14 17 24 26
Hardest   29

I propose that we each try to do those five recordings and then vote
on the set.  Also, that we send a full set of LMPs the Base was developed
from with the final set.  Everyone can see it for themselves then.  I
would ask that in making recording you try to use resonable routes and
tactics not 1 in a 100 suicide runs like on COMPET-N and exit with some
resonable hit value (ie 35% health and 161% armor would give ~70 hit
point value, 50% health and 30% armor ~80 hit points).  Run thru as
much as you want as long as it can be done reliably (50% or more) and
you don't end at 3% health or something.  Other than that put everything
as far under as you can :-)




Evaluating sets with + meaning agreement.  I left mine out of the set
so as not to confuse the issues.  And I took some liberties with Yonatan's
easiest set.

Yona's Easiest   +01 +18 XX XX +32
Yona's Easy      +03 04 07 +08 10 +15 +21 +27 +30 --- 28 31 (I assume ok? :)
Yona's Medium    02 +05 +11 +16 +19 +20 +22 +23 26
Yona's Hard      +06 +09 +12 +13 +14 25
Yona's Hardest   17 24 +29

George  Easiest  +01 +18 +32
George  Easy     +03 +08 +15 +21 +27 +30 --- 28 31
George  Medium   04 +05 07 10 +11 +16 +19 +20 +22 +23 25
George  Hard     02 +06 +09 +12 +13 +14 17 24 26
George  Hardest  +29


Combined sets with agreement

Common Easiest   +01 +18 +32
Common Easy      +03 +08 +15 +21 +27 +30 --- 28 31
Common Medium    +05 +11 +16 +19 +20 +22 +23
Common Hard      +06 +09 +12 +13 +14
Common Hardest   +29


MAPs open to questions followed by where the
votes would put it based on SECTION 4 and the
set that would result, which is just a reprint
of George's set minus 26.

02 (hard)

04 (medium)

07 (medium)

10 (medium)

17 (hard)

24 (hard)

25 (medium)

26 (tied)

Easiest   01 18 32
Easy      03 08 15 21 27 28 30 31
Medium    04 05 07 10 11 16 19 20 22 23 25
Hard      02 06 09 12 13 14 17 24
Hardest   29


Y>> MAP02
Y>> -----
Y>> I believe it's much easier than one might think because of (I say that again)
Y>> the short time you need to survive in. It does require some skill and good
Y>> aim, though, so I would say -1. (medium)

M> I would still vote for it in Hard just for balance.  Especially if
M> we move a bunch of easiest to easy.  Besides, I haven't personally
M> managed it under par UV yet myself!  But I haven't seriously tried
M> since my D2T timeperiod.

G> Map02: Despite what Yonatan says I still think this is hard.  It's
G>        too bad this was in the easiest set before so no D2SG ever did it.

Yonatan is quite correct this is short and simple.  But it can't be
medium because it takes a good solid run with skillful shooting and
movement to make it happen.  This is just as hard to put under 1:30
as I thought.  Even Daniel's comment on his COMPET-N run ... "I never
would have beleived it".  The best I could do was 1:22 and all shot
up at the ending, hard.

Y>> MAP04
Y>> -----
Y>> It's not easy to run through, but on the other hand the par is very high and
Y>> you can easily get 100% kills too. -1 (easy)

M> This MAP I do not know so can't comment.  May have to run it a few
M> times.

G> Map04: Yonatan thinks this one is rather easy but I agree with Mike.

Well this one is not so hard as I thought but not so easy as most of the
other easy so medium still looks good.  Par is not the issue as Yonatan
says, just do it enough to survive and get a good run, medium.

Y>> MAP07
Y>> -----
Y>> Too easy on HMP. -2 (easy)

M> But it will now be UV so I just did -1 for my proposal.

G> Map07: This one is alot different than the others; there is no
G>        complex route to follow or tricky jumps to make.  Just straight
G>        kill, kill, kill, and stay alive in the process.  Still, seems a
G>        stretch calling it easy, esp in UV.

Well to my surprise this was much tougher than I thought so medium still
looks good since it is nowhere near a 09 but it will be a tough medium,
as tough as 06 or 14 for instance - but given its popularity, medium.

Y>> MAP10
Y>> -----
Y>> It's very easy to get through on HMP. Even a friend of mine who can't do
Y>> level 5 on D2M rules did it on a 2nd try. -2 (easy)

M> This true on UV also?  I gave it a -1 so this one is still open
M> My problem was trying to keep everything out of easy or meduim
M> set.  Perhaps we will have to end up a little unbalanced.

G> Map10: I can't see this one as easy either ...

I can't see this as easy at all.  It took me quite a long time and
finally I had to watch a COMPET-N LMP to get it fast and healthy, medium.

Y>> MAP17
Y>> -----
Y>> A very long way but a very long par. Many violent parts. I'm not completely
Y>> sure about this one - maybe hard, maybe hardest. +0.5 (?)

M> 0.5? I like it :-)  Not as hard as you may think so I vote
M> round down not up.  There are at least 10 tricks that I used
M> to do it NM so UV with the tricks 0, without the tricks ... ugh.

G> Map17: Hard or Hardest??  I still think it's only hard, the par is so
G>        long.

Granted I just finished this on NM but there is nothing more
than hard in this one as the tricks are many many.  I recorded
it lots of ways and they were all pretty easy.  It never took more
than three tries for any variation and they all came in at ~4:30.
Some variations were just safer and a tiny bit slower, hard.

Y>> MAP24
Y>> -----
Y>> Definitely the ledges and having no weapon (or wasting time getting one)
Y>> make this one "hardest". 0

M> But it is closer to other hard MAPs than to 29 IMO so I forced
M> it into Hard even though I tend to agree it is Hardest.

G> Map24: If this is hardest then so is 13, don't you think??  13 has
G>        a very low par for all you have to do.

I didn't get to this one in recording so I can't say.  I did it in
Tyson so I know it well and I can't think it is hardest.  If this and 13
are equal then this is no more than a low hard as 13 is quite easy
for a - hard.

Y>> MAP25
Y>> -----
Y>> You run in the middle of many humans and your health drops very
Y>> quickly. +1  (hard)

M> I would say 0 but would be happy to have more in the Hard set.  While
M> it is difficult to put it as far under as Daniel, putting it under
M> 2:30 is a piece of cake given the weapons and powerups at hand for the
M> cost of 20 sec or so diversion.

G> Map25: This map is tough, but there's lots of weaponry.  It certainly is
G>        easier than 26 in NM, Mike!!  So I'm going with medium.

Another that I didn't get to record yet but I also just finished this
on NM and it is no more than a medium there (2:07 including dance!) so
I can hardly see UV being hard, medium.

Y>> MAP26
Y>> -----
Y>> A very high par time, but some hard areas. +1

M> I like +1 but went with +2 in my proposal because both you
M> and George had it Hard.  I said in my 7/17 proposal I thought 2 and 26
M> were still out of place so I will go back to +1 unless George
M> objects.

G> Map26: This map has migrated from easy to hard, Mike!!  The par is pretty
G>        long, but it's easy to die.  I'll go with hard.

I really should have recorded this one as I don't know the map and
I have no idea if 5:00 is too long or ok for it.  But after doing
09 I have to say that your comments on stating alive longer taking more
skill is big time correct and I suspect this is very like 09, long
complicated route where many thing can go disaterously wrong, hard.


> -------------------
> My final sets (after changes):
> Easiest   01 18 28 31 32
> Easy      03 04 07 08 10 15 21 27 30
> Medium    02 05 11 16 19 20 22 23 26
> Hard      06 09 12 13 14 25
> Hardest   17 24 29
> I will be happy to hear your opinions about how the levels should be moved.
> These opinions are definitely not final. I will also send my analysis to
> George Bell and after the three of us decide we can tell Frank the final
> sets.
> Bye,
> Yonatan
> -------------------
> Sooooo, this gives:
> Easiest: 01 18 32
> Easy   : 03 08 15 21 27 28 30 31
> Medium : 04 05 07 10 11 16 19 20 22 23 25
> Hard   : 02 06 09 12 13 14 17 24 26
> Hardest: 29
> Looks to me like moving a level or two for Medium to Easy would level things
> out.  Which one, 04 05 07 10???  Hmmm...  Maybe  05 or 07.
> -George
> -------------------

Written by Mike Pratt on 1996 08 11. Footer, and nothing else, edited by fms. Online on the DHT site since 1996 08 14.